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Proposal to revoke the membership of "very silly member"

MSameer's picture

Since we didn't agree on a common copyright for the content posted on EGLUG, Then each comment is copyrighted by the individual who posted it.

I don't know whether he's allowed to edit his post after posting it or not, So I don't really care about the content I'm posting as long as it's for the good of the community.

Making fun of me isn't really something I appreciate or like, It makes me angry and offended.

I don't care how I look like as I had no control over it in many aspects. But I don't like it when I deal with adult people assuming that they are adults enough and I discover that they are not as I thought.

I'm not requesting this as an EGLUG Administrator, I'm requesting this as a normal person from the community who wa offended because of one of the members in the LUG.

Only administrators can propose membership revocation.

Membership may only be revoked if a member: Persists in violation of the AUP Persists in unethical behavior not covered by the AUP

I find him insisting on his unethical behaviour by changing my avatar to something more offending to me.

We need 27 votes.

I'm not using my Admin. rights here and placing my 9 votes.

I'd be happy if the whole community takes action.

Best regards,

Conceptor's picture

+1

what makes any member of our lug offended for sure it will offend most of us.

what will make Mohamed Sameer offended for sure ,it will make many people offended(count me on this).

I do not accept this behavior for many reasons

  1. we should grown up.
  2. we do not have enough time.
  3. we should respect each other to have a healthy environment.

silly member you have 2 choices IMO : to apologize to Mohamed Sammer or delete your account as you have done before.

if you did not like any of these I will vote against you (it's not personal but you abused using resources)

Diaa Radwan

Alaa's picture

copyrights?!!!

while we did not agree on a specific license we did agree the whole thing is open content and we encourage people to reuse our content, so please don't use this argument, it will cause more harm if we adopt such a policy.

IMO persists means more than two incidents.

Alaa


"i`m feeling for the 2nd time like alice in wonderland reading el wafd"

YoussefAssad's picture

No

I will not be a member of a community which revokes membership.

silly member offended sameer, probably without intending to, so Sameer deserves an apology. That's the maximum.

I think it's time the admins remember that their original mandate was not to be police but to simply take care of the technical side of things. The admins were granted privileges for this purpose.

Membership revocation is abuse.

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Alaa's picture

absolutely

I agree with every word.

frankly I'm really worried about what's going on on the forum these days, suggestions to punish volunteers, suggestions to revoke membership.

chill people, remember why we are here, remember why we had to split.

Alaa


"i`m feeling for the 2nd time like alice in wonderland reading el wafd"

MSameer's picture

Youssef: revokation is part o

Youssef: revokation is part of the charter and asking for it is not an abuse.

Alaa: Maybe we agreed on the content, But not the avatars.

I declare myself officially out of this LUG.

It's not suitable for me to stay here for whatever reasons.

Alaa's picture

not avatars tab3an

not avatars tab3an.

Alaa


"i`m feeling for the 2nd time like alice in wonderland reading el wafd"

MSameer's picture

And I said it that I don't ca

And I said it that I don't care about the content, But the avatar is a property of me And his modifications are offensive to me.

Whatever, I'm really out of this LUG if this doesn't get solved.

Comeon eglug, You have a broken admin. team.

Now you can make fun of anyone and nothing'll happen to you

يا خساره

YoussefAssad's picture

Invoking Godwin's Law (intended to terminate this thread)

silly member offended you and you are owed an apology. That is all you're owed, life doesn't owe you more than that. Asking for more is tantamount to indulgence in a victim complex; "the whole world is out to get me".

It's a little bit like little Shmoel (is that even a valid Jewish name? Looks like one...) using what Hitler did to justify why he should drop an A-bomb on $VILLAGE.

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MSameer's picture

What I want or what I get fro

What I want or what I get from life is not something that can be decided by you, And declaring this thread as closed or not is not a decision that you can take alone.

Come on, Twist the laws and the charter as you want.

Conceptor's picture

الموضوع واضح واحد شتم واحد بالصورة

not avatar as license ,not avatar as content ,avatar content is not covered by the AUP(we agree on this b4)

  1. but if someone took your avatar which is unique because simply it's your head and he then used it on his own profile and start post comments using your head (is it acceptable)
  2. what if someone make fun of you avatar (your face which obviously part of your personalty )

do u support this as member/admin (yes | no ).

is this acceptable here??.

it's not covered by our young AUP ,which is made hopefully for people to respect each other ,

should we accepter any abuse when there' violation as we can not predict every stupid action that may happen on earth .

Conceptor : will you leave your project if you found a bug??, will I leave my home if i found cockroach .

Diaa Radwan

YoussefAssad's picture

Resignation

Now that Sameer has resigned we are going to need a new admin, and we'll also need someone to take over the IRC channel.

Can the rest of the admin team handle this?

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theSamo's picture

.....

I see it as a personal insult at MSameer. I dunno what should be the punishment for that ... but it seems like very silly member even took it further by that drawing he made.

Punishing volunteers is one thing (that i find rather extreme myself) and acting to a presistant personal insult is another.

A clear warning directly to very silly member should be made to change the avatar and offerhis apologies.

If he doesn't comply with that. the revoking should be voted on.

Mohammed Ahmed's picture

content violating the laws of Egypt.

what happend is violating the laws of Egypt.

i think its clear i won`t let some one to do with me what happend with mohamed sammer i think even my reaction will be diffrent than him

and what if mohamed didnot accept his apology will you ban him

i'am with mohamed sammer

freedom was never like that if some one abused me he should get punished we are not kids we are adult and we are responsible about our actions and behavior what i don`t accpt for my self i don`t accpt for any one els and no personal attacks is allowed her,we are not killing him by revoke his membership

phaeronix's picture

Paranoia ( mine )

First I'd like to say that very_silly_member and silly_member and QT4Dance are all the same person. I don't know why he keeps changing his nick but I refuse this waste of resources. It also creates confusion.

Now about the insult part I think Msameer deserves a public apology in a fashion similar to the insult. Judging silly_member to apologize without seeing that he does so is not enough, we have to enforce the judgement. Otherwise we kick him out.

I don't want to sound like a law maker or a law enforcer, but I believe for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. He did something wrong and he has to admit it and apologize, if he apologizes in a manner that satisfies MSameer then it's done. If he doesn't apologize then he has to be punished.

If we don't deal with this matter properly we will have this situation repeated over and over, and it could happen to anyone else. So we set an example of the response here.

I know I am kinda paranoid but I'd like to hint at the possibility of a conspiracy to sabotage our mission. We are close to achieving our goal in the fest ISA, and I believe there might be individuals who don't want that.

Silly please explain your self in a civilized manner.

DarKnesS_WolF's picture

IMO

  1. IMO: he did it on purpose. so let us take away that he did it and he didn't thout about it.
  2. IMO: he should give mohamed sameer appology.. better to him to be a good one for sure ..
  3. IMO: what if he didn`t appologies ? should be time like max 24 hours to give the appology if he didn`t then the rest of the admins do what makes mohamed sameer feel confertable ( i`m not trying to make law like phaeronix too )
  4. IMO: if some admins thinks that revorking membership not healthy then please remove it from the charter.
  5. IMO: everyone has his own BLACK LIST ppl that he can't depend on them.. why the lug don't has it`s own one?
  6. IMO:when i was talking about punishment by block the users. mm u can say i was high cuz of the spam ... but let us think about away to know who we can depend on and who we can`t ( and as YoussefAssad said: we can't say no to volunteer work even it's was 10% ( aw fihma ma3nah ) )

NOTE: That is just my #Brain storm > eglug.org/post/ peace


Live Free Or Die... ohh and Alice batmasy 3la el Omrania min el rabbit hole

DarKnesS_WolF's picture

Community

i think losing members is not our goal in this LUG. but i done something wrong and i already appolgized .. always keep in mind there is no community like to lose members. the point is when u do something wrong u should appologiz .. once i sent email 6 times to the eglug members and i have done public appoligize ;) so what do u think about offinding member in same community ? anyway we should foces in the fest ( at lest that what i`ll do )

peace


Live Free Or Die...

MSameer's picture

I'm not talking about the sim

I'm not talking about the similarities between the 2 avatars, This is something we can discuss in a friendly face to face meeting while I invite you to a cup of cappuccino in a place yo like.

I don't care about the apology as much as I do care about understanding why.

IMHO Using my avatar is unethical, And it was creating confusion even with people close to me like Darkness_wolf.

But modifying it in this way is something that was insulting me personally and We can take it offline or keep it online as you wish.

I'm not really proud about how the admin. team is performing in such situations "and I consider myself one of them".

There's also someone who I'm not really proud of his comments on IRC regarding this matter.

here's also an xadmin simply saying things against what's stated in the charter and no one is either correcting him or proposing the charter modifications.

A final point, I decided to quit not to lose your efforts in the fest. I still think that it's better to harm myself in a way or another than to lose a volunteer.

Cheers,

Alaa's picture

the charter

first lets not confuse each other, membership revocation is part of the policies and not the charter

now it says in the MCAP


Membership revocation

Only administrators can propose membership revocation.

Membership may only be revoked if a member:

  • Persists in violation of the AUP
  • Persists in unethical behavior not covered by the AUP

now it doesn't say membership should be revoked when blah blah happens, it says may only be revoked when blah blah happens.

this means it is an option to use membership revocation as a way to maintain harmony in the community, but it doesn't say we have to use it immediatly.

but thats not all, I don't agree silly_member was persistant in violating the AUP or persistant in unethical behavior, so I don't think these lines apply at all, notice that this is why we have a vote system because the criterea is subjective.

you are angry because we are discussing the issue, it seems the natural thing to do to disucss things first, and not to make any decisions until everyone involved get to voice their opinion.

finally I think it is in very poor taste to use an admin privilege to resolve an issue that involves you, IMO you should have asked another admin to propose handle it, the moment you enter a conflict you should forget you are an admin.

finally instead of throwing vague words like here's also an xadmin simply saying things against what's stated in the charter and no one is either correcting him or proposing the charter modifications.

it would be more constructive to actually quote what was said and say who was involved.

Alaa


"i`m feeling for the 2nd time like alice in wonderland reading el wafd"

MSameer's picture

#I didn't use it immediatly,

  1. I didn't use it immediatly, I asked him to change the avatar and he did something worse.
  2. The mcap didn't say that we need to vote before asking to revoke or not. So your thought as an individual doesn't count as long as all the rest are not sharing it with you.
  3. You can't discuss things when the other part is ignoring it or doing something worse.
  4. I didn't use my admin rights and placed my 9 votes, This is what I understand. But sorry, relying on you for example to take action won't result in anything before days as you are NOYT that free and the rest of the team have their own jobs.

>> here's also an xadmin simply saying things against what's stated in the charter and no ?

>> one is either correcting him or proposing the charter modifications.

Go read youssef's comment.

Alaa's picture

ok

>I didn't use it immediatly, I asked him to change the avatar and he did something worse.

thats the thing, maybe he doesn't see it as something worse? personally I can't see what is making you angry to begin with, I don't see how the avatar is insulting

>The mcap didn't say that we need to vote before asking to revoke or not. So your thought as an individual doesn't count as long as all the rest are not sharing it with you.

huh what are you talking about? did I say we have to vote before asking to revoke? I said we have to vote on the decisions itself, and there is no such thing as an thought that doesn't count, all opinions are important.

> You can't discuss things when the other part is ignoring it or doing something worse.

ignoring you? this whole thing has been going on for what? 24 hours? thats not enough time for you to say he is ignoring you, as for doing worse as I said it isn't that clear to everyone.

he was doing a parody, it offended you, he is supposed to apologise but I can't see why you assume he did it just to offend you.

> 4. I didn't use my admin rights and placed my 9 votes, This is what I understand. But sorry, relying on you for example to take action won't result in anything before days as you are NOYT that free and the rest of the team have their own jobs.

true and thats very comendable, sorry for not thanking you for it.

but what I meant was proposing the membership revocation ala

>Only administrators can propose membership revocation.

I would have just complained about the behavior on the forum and let others think about how to handle it, but as I said it's in your rights to do what you did, I just consider it in poor taste and since you did decline to use your 9 ballots that actually balances it, no probs here.

oh ex-admin got it, yeah I seem to remember this line was actually invented by youssef right?

I always thought the policies where not disscussed properly. and yeah I agree it is weird that youssef would say that.

the reason why I ignored this line is becuase I'll ignore anyone who says I'm not playing with you unless. I ignore it when it comes from you and ignore it when it comes from youssef.

Alaa


"i`m feeling for the 2nd time like alice in wonderland reading el wafd"

MSameer's picture

I said "as long as all the re

I said "as long as all the rest are not sharing it with you." which means that you can't enforce your opinion if the rest are not sharing it with you.

Whatever, Next time it'll be a discussion.

And yes, I'm ignoring you unless meeso invites me to 7orreia ;-)

YoussefAssad's picture

Alright.

I'll bite.

The charter allows for membership revocation. If you recall who wrote the charter (me), then you'll understand that there is a slight possibility that I might actually remember what I wrote. Based on this, we have a question: how can someone who wrote something into a charter disagree with it so strongly? Consider the possibility that I understand that the community requires this facility of revocation and that, despite the fact that I acknowledge this, I disapprove. In that case, the only logical conclusion is that I may have written the charter with the community in mind rather than my own narrow opinions. Based on this logic, what would happen is, if you revoked the guy's membership I'd either push for an immeidate vote on repealing this section of the charter or I'd jump ship. I don't see either happening at this point in time, quite frankly.

Now we've looked at me and you, let's have a look at poor Mr. Silly member. He's new to the LUG, doesn't yet understand how we work, how we think, and how we play. He makes a playful jab at Sameer to his great misfortune and gets this thread as a result. I'm sorry you had to go through this silly member.

Now for the charter. I still feel it is wrong for revocation to be an option; a community should be stronger than its trolls. One day, however, we may have trolls stronger than the admins and mods; that is what I wanted to guard against by including provision in the charter for membership revocation. Quite frankly, it makes me sick to see such a petty dispute escalated to this level.

Get a grip.

On a personal level as someone who started this LUG, I apologise to silly member for this ridiculous farce. This isn't what I expected.

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MSameer's picture

The charter allows for member

Good, If you have an opinion against the charter then you can propose your modifications. Doing anything else is simply a waste of time, Of your time and of our time.

He meant to be offensive and he insisted.

Why not say that he was afraid to lose his member ship ? How can you tell ?

And I gave the reasons for my call, Either you like them personally or not is not the matter here if ll other people approve them.

And before you say he didn't instst, You must 1st define what's meant by "insist".

He's not new. And he's supposed to read the harter. If he didn't read it then this is his problem not my problem.

Go propose what you want, I'l vote against your modifications, I'm not convnced.

The community has to be stronger than the trolls but sometimes you need to take an action. I've passed by such an example.

Get a grip. If this is for me, Then get one for yourself.

YoussefAssad's picture

Good, If you have an opinion

I have opinions against the charter; if I know that the charter is better without my opinions then I do not propose them. I do not look to you to know when I am wasting my own time, and I think you are not in a position to judge how everyone else's time is optimally spent. Being admin does not entitle you to use the word "we" like that; admin is a technical position, you do not get the privilege of speaking for everyone else.

In my opinion, it is a greater waste of time to decide 4 times a month that you're gonna leave and then not do anything about it.

He apologised. You have no right to judge people's intentions. Being admin does not give you this right. The only thing you deserve is an apology and you got that. If you didn't get that things would have been different. Asking for more is indulgence in a victim complex.

Since you can't tell what a person's intentions are, then if someone apologises one accepts this. Shall we now ask the poor fellow to prove how sorry he is? What would make you feel better, cash compensation for mental anguish? A written signed apology registered in the Shahr 3eqari? Where do you draw the line? The rest of humanity accepts apologies without wasting time and moves on.

Like I said before in this post and the previous one, I do not propose to change anything. I'm afraid it's going to be something of a challenge for you to vote against whatever I propose when what I propose is nothing.

I don't think you read my post very well, because that was my point also. Unfortunately, you haven't passed by such an example; silly member is not a troll. Trolls don't apologise. He's just a guy who made an error in judgment thinking something would be funny and it turned out not to be.

He doesn't deserve to be subjected to a witch hunt so you can feel righteous.

I'm not the one resigning every month.

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MSameer's picture

I do not look to you to kno

I do not look to you to know when I am wasting my own time, I didn't say that you are wasting your own time, I don't even care about your time or how you spend it. and I think you are not in a position to judge how everyone else's time is optimally spent. Being admin does not entitle you to use the word "we" like that; admin is a technical position, you do not get the privilege of speaking for everyone else. Wasting more than a day in such a discussion if it's not being counted as wasting the time of the whole community in this thread "i guess the fest wiki is almost dead" can be counted as wasting the time of a volunteer and one of the fest organizers "which is me" by another member "which is you".

In my opinion, it is a greater waste of time to decide 4 times a month that you're gonna leave and then not do anything about it. This is a waste of my time and you are not in a position to judge me, No one can judge me on how I waste my time.

FYI: You also said that you are not with us if we start revoking memberships, And I said that I'm leaving if this doesn't get solved.

I vote with or against anything depending on whether I think it's right or wrong. It's simple, Go propose it or stop spreading FUD.

And yes, I passed by a troll experience, It wasn't silly member, Don't assume things. And I know that sometimes you need to revoke memberships.

Me resigning every month or even every day is not your business, Where was that stated before ?

YoussefAssad's picture

foo

You are not entitled to speak for the LUG. If they feel the same as you let them say so. You have no right to assume they do (though you're probably right, but you do not have the privilege of wagging your tongue on their behalf).

My opinion is that this isn't a waste of time. I respect admins who make mistakes and back down. I tink when one makes a mistake and escalates it using scare tactics like resigning then the admin team has a problem. I'd rather have a less able technical team than have an unstable megalomaniac on it who's willing to hold the entire team hostage to his tantrums. Therefore, this thread is now better suited in my opinion to highlighting how we have a problem in the admin team.

You're a great mind technically; I've never seen better. Having you in a position of responsibility, however, is a catastrophe.

You didn't read my post carefully enough. I don't care how determined you are, if I propose nothing you're not going to be able to vote against it.

To pretend to resign periodically is FUD. To call you out on it is not.

As a LUG member, it is my business if an admin I voted for pretends to resign periodically rather than admit error.

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MSameer's picture

You are not entitled to spe

You are not entitled to speak for the LUG. If they feel the same as you let them say so. You have no right to assume they do (though you're probably right, but you do not have the privilege of wagging your tongue on their behalf). Good, We have 2 things then:

  1. either you wate for them to say what they think.
  2. You assume that the past few minutes of discussion are enough for everyone to post his/her opinion and in that case I can't be wrong by giving silly member more than that hours to express himself because it's more than the period you gave the rest of the lug members.

My opinion is that this isn't a waste of time. I respect admins who make mistakes and back down. I tink when one makes a mistake and escalates it using scare tactics like resigning then the admin team has a problem.

  1. If after all this you don't think that I'm not backing down then this is your problem
  2. If I get the 27 votes required to revoke my membership then I'll be out, What's being applied to any member is applied to me.
  3. If you are not happy with the admin team then do an action.
  4. I was insulted and I said that I'm leaving if this doesn't get solved, You also said that you are leaving if we start to revoke memberships.

I'd rather have a less able technical team than have an unstable megalomaniac on it who's willing to hold the entire team hostage to his tantrums. I don't accept such words regarding my personality.

To pretend to resign periodically is FUD. To call you out on it is not. Prove it.

As a LUG member, it is my business if an admin I voted for pretends to resign periodically rather than admit error. If the LUG says that this is correct then it's corrct.

YoussefAssad's picture

foo

I don't see everyone unanimous about anything in here. I agree that in many cases the opinion of the community can be assessed without going through he entire voting process. But I don't see that in here. In fact, WE don't see that in here. See what I mean? WE don't feel it's a waste of time. If you can speak for everyone then everyone can.

In any case, this is an isolated incident; I know that normally you have a very accurate sense of right and wrong. It's wrong that you use "we" in this discussion, but it's not normal for you. Just to be perfectly fair.

You didn't back down, you left the LUG. So did silly member, unfortunately, thanks to the unjustified tantrum. I don't care that you asked him to stay, you made him leave despite the fact that he did his best to correct his mistake. Heck, you didn't even tell him that his apology was accepted. He made a mistake on a frigging website, he isn't a mass murderer. PERSPECTIVE.

Of course the rules apply to you, and I know that you know how to apply them well in 99% of the cases. But no one said anything about revoking your membership. Personally, I want you as a member but not an admin; as such, when the admin elections come next I'll vote against you. But that's all I'm doing.

But then again, you clearly stated earlier that you resigned. I suggest you either take that back or apply it. If you want my opinion, I think you should hang on to it till elections for the sake of the LUG's stability.

Prove what, that you pretend to resign? I don't have to. You've said many times you're leaving and you're still here.

Yep, absolutely. That's what admin elections are for.

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MSameer's picture

WE don't feel it's a waste

WE don't feel it's a waste of time. If you can speak for everyone then everyone can. You are sying then what I did by saying WE is wrong.

And here you are repeating what you said wrong.

You didn't back down, you left the LUG. So did silly member, unfortunately, thanks to the unjustified tantrum. I don't care that you asked him to stay, you made him leave despite the fact that he did his best to correct his mistake. No, I didn't leave, I said that I'll leave if it's not solved. And it's solved. This is the 3rd time I repeat such a thing.

And I'm not asking him to stay because you care or not. I'm doing it because I think it's the right thing to do, And I'll solve it farther with him.

Heck, you didn't even tell him that his apology was accepted. He made a mistake on a frigging website, he isn't a mass murderer. PERSPECTIVE. Ahh, OK. I forgot to tell silly member that I'm accepting it, I hope this makes Youssef happy.

Of course the rules apply to you, and I know that you know how to apply them well in 99% of the cases. But no one said anything about revoking your membership. Personally, I want you as a member but not an admin; as such, when the admin elections come next I'll vote against you. But that's all I'm doing. Read the charter well, Admins don't run again. I can be kicked out at any time, But no more elections for me.

But then again, you clearly stated earlier that you resigned. I suggest you either take that back or apply it. If you want my opinion, I think you should hang on to it till elections for the sake of the LUG's stability. I stated that I'mresigning if it's not solved which didn't happen

You also stated that you are not part of this community if we start revoking memberships.

Prove what, that you pretend to resign? I don't have to. You've said many times you're leaving and you're still here. Show me where are they stated on the LUG ?

MSameer's picture

And no one'll allow you t lea

And no one'll allow you t leave, i prefer to leave myself rather than letting you leave.

Which simply means that you are most welcomed during the fest and/or after the fest.

It's simple, You might not find yourself useful but you can't tell for sure.

Unfortunately you leaving or not'll not end this discussion.

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