Skip to Content

Take EGLUG into the next step!!!

ikhnaton2's picture
ShErbO's picture

I think it's a good idea

The problem is: We need good ideas, and more importantly we need coders who are interested AND who have enough spare time to work on the projects.
ikhnaton2's picture

For sure we need good

For sure we need good ideas, coders and project admins too. I know these're limited but I beleive that there're among us in EGLUG and some others out of EGLUG have good ideas, can be good open source coders and projects admins. If we agree on the idea and implemented it with the best methods, I think it'll begin very small like 5 or 6 ideas with 5 or 6 coders with 2 or 3 or even all of them are project admins but it'll increase and our experience will increase.


MSameer's picture

That's a nice idea but I

That's a nice idea but I see 2 limitations:

  1. We don't really have much coders especially experienced people to lead projects and those who can are busy, I'd be welling to give some time if you consider me experienced enough "I do believe I'm, But you might have another opinion :-)"
  2. EGLUG doesn't have enough resources to do that, We are using a free donated shared hosting, I'll not talk about the reasons why we are doing this.

I also have some questions:

  1. What Egyptian specific projects do you have ?
  2. Why not use something like sourceforge.net ?

I'd be welling to donate web hosting and CVS/svn as much as I can, I can't promise the durability or quality of the service but I'll try as hard as I can.

I'd say we start then we can seek a sponsor later ?

ikhnaton2's picture

First, if you consider me

First,

For sure ya Mohamed I consider you an experienced developer and you know that I do even if my consideration could mean nothing to you ;).

Let me discuss every point to reach the best solution:

You mean we don't really have much coders that could volunteer. But what kind of coders you are talking about? Free/Open Source Software could be in any langauge even those with restricted license like VS.Net, Java, ... So, we're not talking here on projects that's only in C/C++ or only work on Linux. Projects could be in any langauage and work on any platform. Even with this idea, you're right, we could have few volunteering coders because of:

  1. As I told you before, currently, there're few projects that could be interested to (Egyptian) individuals and they are fragmented.
  2. There're no consolidated community in Egypt that interested in FOSS development with the required support.

There could be also many other reasons but making an Egyptian community for FOSS will facilitate coders and project admins with time. I think, everything is begining small, right?

This's a limitation I don't know. Doesn't drupal has modules that can be depolyed for this purpose?

Well, this's a good question and I think our community is full of software requirement. Some of those, I may be interested in, other I'm not. But let say for example "Baghdad" is one of the good ideas. On the other hand, many charities and NGOs need management system and they can't buy license for good ones. Many stores are using stolen software and afraid of 'mosanafat' because they can't pay for licensed software. Now, most big mosques and churches have training and computer centers and need many software that sometimes they pay much to purchase or just stole it from the net with its crack. There're many and many ideas that serve our community. I have dozen at least :)

I know someone will ask this question :). SF.net is too complicated. I have 2 registered software there and I discontinue them coz everything is so complicated. They have high standard project management system, I can't deny but I need to have master and I read a lot and lot of documentation to only use their system. May be it's my problem, I don't know others opinion but I beleive we can do projects development in more simple way and don't need complicated system like SF.net.

On the other hand, if we can't find host and EGLUG can't host it, and we agree to use SF.net, we need to have a section of project ideas and projects in progress and then the CVS/Bugzilla/... could be on SF.net. This section could be a Forum section or a module for project managment from Drupal and it'll not load EGLUG.

Here, we are talking :). I don't think it'll be heavily loaded in the begining. For me, I'm welling to donate with fixed monthly or yearly fees and give hand in maintaining the site if u want my help.

Yea, I think we can seek sponsors very easy as there're many Development companies in Egypt that could be interested in the idea but we need to begin first and prove that the idea is beneficial.


Alaa's picture

in my opinion an abstract

in my opinion an abstract idea is not going to work out very well, gather a handful of interested people and come up with an initial project, don't limit yourself to starting a project from scratch. working on implementing that project will give the community the experience it needs to support larger initiatives and may even lead to spinoff, complementary and side projects.

but first you need to identify this unique project that is answers some local need (remember just because it is a local need does not mean it is a specific to our local situation, maybe others have the same need).

easy to identify targets relate to arabic support but may be too difficult:

  • arabic support in scribus
  • arabic support in educational games
  • language analysis tools based on a morphologically aware engine
  • arabic ocr
  • arabic text to speech
  • arabic speech to text
  • explore other arabic related accessability techs
  • something to help with accounting and taxing that is aware of local laws (probably extend an existing package).

more generic suggestions, but useful for local context (these I'd actually participate in)

  • computer lab management tool based on VNC protocol (did a prototype using a bunch of shell scripts already)
  • groupware features for drupal

the issues of infrastructural support can be dealt with once we start, collecting money or seeking more donated resources without an actual project and an actual team is not a good idea IMO

Alaa


"context is over-rated. who are you anyway?"

ikhnaton2's picture

I can't agree more

I agree and I appreciate the list of projects that you proposed. Here are some other propose project ideas from my experience with charities, companies and perosnal needs:

  • Related to our community needs:
  1. Billing and Control systems
  2. Human Resources Management systems
  3. Training Managment system
  • Related to our local companies need:
  1. CronJobs: To maintain crontab jobs on *nix system with features like timeline chart, dependancies, job control, backup, ...
  2. Cross-System Monitoring Tool: To be used for monitoring OS jobs/logs/filesystems and database tables with history and web-based interface
  3. Operational Reference Book: A web-based program to document all operational tasks
  4. Work Order System: Web-based System for organizing regular team jobs

Others not very local but I'm interested in:

  1. Drupal MVC: Make changes to Drupal to be able to be used as MVC Framework
  2. HTML2Delicious: Program in Java to import bookmarks from HTML file to del.icio.us
  3. SYSDATE: A command-based program in C/Java similar to the Oracle function SYSDATE

All of these projects I had begin with, some are completed but not open sourced so I'm trying to make an open source version of it. Others need enhancements and others still in the begining.

On the other hand, I may be interested in 3 of your proposed ideas:

  • Arabic Support in Scribus
  • Accounting and Taxing Software (this could be integrated in the Billing and Control System)
  • Computer Lab Management Tool

I agree. It's a future step.


Alaa's picture

cool so far, but

cool so far, but still

finding a project now that 3 people can agree on would be much more effective and useful, you see unless we have a concrete project we can't actually find out what eglug needs to do to help.

now there is a problem with some of the projects you suggested, I don't think you can build a good generic human resources system, you either write one to a very specific need or you write a more general tool that can be configured/hacked into a hr system for a specific organization. (what OS companies and consultants should be doing).

to get a bunch of volunteers to work on an HR system it must be generic unless all your volunteers are actually interested in helping one specific organization.

anyways the first three projects I'm sure there exists FOSS projects that do these things, and I'm sure we can't find out how they need to be extended without actual use cases.

the cronjobs thing sounds interesting, the system logs thing there are tons of existing code that does that, work order can be handled by a decent groupware package (which we don't have). operational reference book see argument about hr system

I'd forget about hacking drupal core for now, work on building modules, learn more about the internals of drupal and get known in the community then move to hacking core.

no one did html2del.icio.us yet? that sounds trivial

Alaa


"context is over-rated. who are you anyway?"

ikhnaton2's picture

Need to discuss the projects separetly

Alaa, do we have to discuss every project here? The projects name I suggested is such ideas, I don't think it's the suitable place here to brain storm what every system can/can't do. That's why I suggested to have a projects section to discuss such proposed ideas. The first 3 projects are too generic but I've a list of needed features that suits the local needs. I'm also sure like you that there could be FOSS projects related to those projects but we need to study those and see from where could we begin. Taking in consideration that most users in Egypt are using Windows not Linux and it's hard to force a charity/company/store/... IT man to learn Linux only for depolying a free software to him. However, I prefer to make platform independent. This's a first requirement. There're for sure other consideration to be taken and need discussion.

I don't know what you mean about groupware idea but I think it's a drupal module while I'm talking about stand alone system. May be we can approach a solution that is good for both but we need a separate thread for that too.

No, no one and yea, it's easy. I can do it myself but I prefer working in a team even of 2 members, hosting it on a common place other on my own site.

I'm suggesting here an abstract idea of hosting FOSS projects on EGLUG. If you agree on this we can see what's the best scenario to begin with:

  • Single project or Multiple projects: IMO, I prefer multiple ones
  • What modules needed to feature this in EGLUG, or isn't this applicable on Drupal and should we find another solution: you tell me

Alaa's picture

I was discussing project

I was discussing project idea specifics because I still believe the way to go is to start with a single project.

the point is not to remain always with a single project, but to get the ball rolling and to explore needs and experiment with different ways of doing it.

but anyways I'll just keep repeating myself over and over this way, I've made my point you've made yours let's move on.

if you insist it can be planned in the abstract sense then start suggesting features for admins to implement.

Alaa


"context is over-rated. who are you anyway?"

ikhnaton2's picture

Moving on

Okay, I see Sherbo, MSameer, Alaa agreed on the idea and to move on to implement it, I think we need in the following features:

  1. Every project should be a separate atom
  2. Wiki for specs
  3. Messeging between project members
  4. CVS for program code
  5. Tasks assignment
  6. Milestones feature
  7. Bug tickets

I need your opinion in:

  • Is these features are enough or too much?
  • How to implement those feature on drupal, if not, what're the alternatives?


MSameer's picture

I'd really still vote for

I'd really still vote for sourceforge as I can see you are trying to duplicate it.

It can be implemented using drupal, But EGLUG can't aford CVS, We are on a shared hosting.

Not really sure about messaging and so.

ikhnaton2's picture

I'm not trying to

I'm not trying to duplicate sourceforge for sure. I'm trying to make Egyptian FOSS projects development easy and applicable as an EGLUG activity.

All features and more are found in project module of drupal except CVS which isn't a big problem.

CVS could be emplemented as:

  1. a new flexinode wiki pages with revisions.
  2. on another server, i found those CVS free hosting:

  1. or find someone who can contribute to host our CVS

ikhnaton2's picture

project module

Could admins take a step to install it here on EGLUG?


ikhnaton2's picture

Any News???

Admins, any news ???!!!


Alaa's picture

ssshhhhh you might wake

ssshhhhh you might wake someone up wala 7aga ba3d el shar

Alaa


husband of the Grand Waragi Master

MSameer's picture

You'll get a better

You'll get a better response if you ask about the sm56.

Diaa and Sherif were working on that I guess.

Conceptor's picture

I wasn't sleeping :)

I wrote the quoted text on Friday,I didn't publish it,and I said let other people to say their opinion.as I thought blash ana kol mara.(who frequently his comments told to be aggrieve),as if many of us accepted it I will help immediately.

if project module is needed on eglug we (admin team) won't be late to run it. but there is a general question (don't get frustrated), is it GLUG role to host projects in developing? I think our role is to spread the ideas of foss and encourage people to develop/contribute to FOSS.not to be the host. on other hand what is the state of the content regarding the issues/projects/patchs? also there is many community questions like who will manage projects,categories?(we will discuss it later if the project thing is applicable for us)

Diaa Radwan

ikhnaton2's picture

Diaa, Your question is

Diaa,

Your question is valid one and that's the whole point from the beginning. You are returning us back to the beginning. I thought we discussed that and Mohamed Sameer confirm that EGLUG can't have CVS as EGLUG is running on shared hosting. So, people agreed on the idea of having FOSS projects development as an activity of EGLUG.

Anyway let me declare my POV again, EGLUG are not gonna host projects code files, it'll host the development process itself. Not any kind of of projects but that kind that could serve our community. In that sense, you can consider FOSS projects as an activity of EGLUG as much as the Events, Articles, ... . However, I don't see any problem in hosting projects files but it's your decision at the end.


Conceptor's picture

eglug involved on drupal

eglug involved on drupal translation project(lead by alaa),we were posting the events and the status here.

there was no issue tracking,and this is the point of running the project module or not(there is many other features)but do we really need them on the lug website or to have sub-domain or anything else.

I am not against the idea but we want to have more people involved on this because the thing will run for them :)

cvs/source control or hosting the files is not the issue,it's all about having the development on eglug or taking the development as activity.

there is no decision without discussions ;).


Diaa Radwan

ikhnaton2's picture

Do you recommend to make

Do you recommend to make voting for it or what should we do to make us take the final decission here, either agree or disagree?


Alaa's picture

eh what exactly is the

eh what exactly is the harm in doing it within EGLUG?

the idea behind ikhnaton's suggestion is that eglug's involvement might encourage people who wouldn't normally contribute to participate.

the rup states that senior members can request subdomains for their FOSS projects, one of the reasons why we tried to maintain eglug on a VPS or dedicated server was to be able to host CVS, there was an old decision to have an RPMs section (which will normally require and issue tracker).

so you could say that it has always been implied that we'll get to hosting development projects, and the more we connect stuff to the eglug website the better (unless the project grows and requires a subdomain of it's own but we can wait till it grows, maybe the whole idea won't work aslan).

Alaa


husband of the Grand Waragi Master

Conceptor's picture

hope it will work,

I wanted more memebers to be involved on this,that's it


Diaa Radwan

phaeronix's picture

I say we add it

I have started to use the project module on phaeronix.net to manage issues and releases. Frankly the code has improved compared to the days I looked at it when we were using 4.5

IMHO we could add it and activate it, then if turns out messy or pointless we can always disable it.

What does everyone think ?

MSameer's picture

I also had a look at it

I also had a look at it and I'll try to fix whatever problems I can.

I don't really understand what's wrong despite the long phone call with Sherif and Diaa.

I don't like the idea but I feel it's a good step to activate the LUG thus I'm not objecting.

Alaa's picture

nothing wrong the way I

nothing wrong the way I understand it admin team is working on figuring out proper permissions and stuff.

Alaa


husband of the Grand Waragi Master

MSameer's picture

I phoned Sherif today and

I phoned Sherif today and fined out.

I guess I'm still an admin yet no one of them asked me for help except when I asked them what's wrong.

Odd.

DarKnesS_WolF's picture

Done

ok Done inistalling the project module and here is a summary: Administrators can do anything in the projects. Authenticated Users Can Access project , Access issues , create issues and set issues to active , close , tester needs and patch. Moderators can do the same as Authenticated Users + modifying projects and issues " administer projects , maintain projects " Projects Admins can do exactly the same a Moderators "New Role". Senior == Authenticated Users." in project module permissions " Anonymous can access projects and access issues,

peace


Live Free Or Die Trying... GPG Key ID:0x6FD809F4

MSameer's picture

No, Project admins get all

No, Project admins get all the privileges.

project admins work is some form of an editorial work "from the EGLUG POV" thus they have all the permissions like admins.

The question is: Shall we give them the ability to delete issues and projects ? I guess no since we don't delete anything, Mods get this option but mods are elected.

I guess we should remove the deletion permission in general from mods too ?

ikhnaton2's picture

I'm glad that you applied

I'm glad that you applied the project module, wish it got enough attention from the members.

I agree with MohamedSameer about Project Admins permission and deletion permission.

This issue 3 questions in my head:

  1. If an Authenticated member had an idea for a new project where should he post his idea to proceed it with a project node?
  2. Who should be the Project Admin of that project?
  3. Should'nt there a project admins team to follow up all projects requirements or this task will be added as a new responsability for Moderators/Admins team?

MSameer's picture

1) No, A poor user can't

1) No, A poor user can't create a new project, A project admin should do it.

2) I'm not sure, I guess it should be discussed per each project or we should have someone responsible for it "someone in the project admins group" to assign them.

3) I'd say that the person in the above note should be responsible for all the projects as an overall admin.

OK, The idea I have is 2 have a 2 levels heirarchy, An overall projects admin responsible for all the project and under him there are project admins and each one is responsible for his own project.

What do you think ?

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.


Dr. Radut | forum