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arabic support in to grub boot loader

الاسطر التاليه تحتوى محادثه تمت مع بعض مبرمجى الغروب بوت لودير وفيها ما هو مطلوب لدعم اللغه العربيه لبرنامج الاقلاع غروب اقرا وأخبرنى عن رأيك





[22:30] <daChaac> marco_g, hi
[22:32] <daChaac> okuji, hi... I was wondering should we add one SoC project propsal... about internatinalization support... correct rendering and formatting for foreing glyphs...
[22:33] <marco_g> okuji: You rock! :-)
[22:46] <okuji> daChaac: yes, i18n support is a good topic
[22:46] <okuji> marco_g: :)
[22:50] <daChaac> even if students doesn't apply for it, it would get some publicity that we need someone to do that work :)
[22:50] <marco_g> :-)
[22:50] <okuji> daChaac: however, we have a todo list on the wiki
[22:50] <daChaac> okuji, yes we have... but I think this SoC page would have larger publicity
[22:50] <okuji> BTW, RMS mentioned this:
[22:50] <okuji> It is ok if you talk with student candidates that you already know are
[22:50] <okuji> capable, to plan projects with them. ?That is a good way to produce
[22:50] <okuji> projects that are really likely to get done, and done well.
[22:50] <okuji> daChaac: so you are welcome if you want to talk about your own topic! ;)
[22:50] <daChaac> ok,ok,ok... I write the application :)
[22:51] <daChaac> I was just wondering if I write one (hopefully) good application instead of multiple not so good.
[22:51] <daChaac> It might have better success rate on google's random generator :)
[22:51] <daChaac> or lottery :)
[22:51] <okuji> daChaac: in which project are you interested the most?
[22:51] <okuji> daChaac: I mean, of the projects participating the SoC
[22:52] <daChaac> okuji, I am actually interested in two projects... one is this ATAPI/IDE project and one is to continue on menu interface
[22:52] <daChaac> okuji, I saw one ATAPI/SCSI book in our Uni's IT departments special library
[22:53] <daChaac> okuji, it looked quite promising... I also noticed one protected mode book :)... never seen books like this elsewhere :)
[22:55] <daChaac> okuji, which one of those two projects you see most valuable ?
[22:55] <okuji> daChaac: I can't select one..
[22:56] <Jeroen> okuji: I'm planning to apply for the raid/lvm project
[22:56] <okuji> Jeroen: great
[22:57] <Jeroen> I already wanted to implement that when I would have the time to do it...
[22:59] <daChaac> both of those has pro's and cons... I think the menu work is more straight forward... basicly design and implement... CD-ROM support is more like adventure :)
[23:00] <daChaac> I could easily play with it VMware, but it much harded to debug.
[23:00] <okuji> daChaac: don't talk about VMware :(
[23:00] <Jeroen> I think qemu works fine for testing grub...
[23:01] <daChaac> okuji, what's so wrong with it :) ?
[23:01] <okuji> daChaac: we promote free software
[23:01] <zamaliphe> okuji:  do you meen i18n support in grub  
[23:01] <okuji> daChaac: don't forget that grub is a part of gnu
[23:01] <okuji> zamaliphe: sure
[23:02] <daChaac> okuji, yes I am aware of it. But I still don't see anything wrong using otherwise good product. :)
[23:02] <zamaliphe> okuji:  do you meen that we cane boot with arabic grub gfxmenu /msseg file ?
[23:03] <Jeroen> doesn't http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/ clearly explain what's wrong with non-free software? :)
[23:03] <daChaac> okuji, I just need to use too often windows to do my normal tasks so it is not pleasant to boot to another OS... using vmware is fast to launch linux (or almost any other OS) and do instanty work there too.
[23:04] * Jeroen stopped using windows years ago
[23:04] <daChaac> zamaliphe, it would be a plan to add support to render correctly arabic glyphs
[23:05] <-- nyu has left this channel.
[23:05] <daChaac> zamaliphe, we alreday have utf-8 support in GRUB to allow us to use unicode internally for texts... only the renderin and different langauge support is missing
[23:05] <okuji> daChaac: even if so, I don't want to hear proprietary software very much
[23:05] <daChaac> okuji, ok.
[23:06] <okuji> daChaac: rms accepts using proprietary software to improve free software, so I don't object to using proprietary software
[23:06] <marco_g> daChaac: I thought rendering already  worked!?
[23:06] <okuji> daChaac: but if we talk about proprietary software in public, it looks like promoting prorietary software
[23:06] <marco_g> okuji: He does?
[23:06] <okuji> marco_g: yes, he did
[23:06] <marco_g> okuji: As a long time plan to replacing it?
[23:06] <daChaac> marco_g, yes I can render glyph to x,y position... but it doesn't say where next glyph would be rendered
[23:07] <daChaac> marco_g, glyphs can go to any direction :)
[23:07] <okuji> marco_g: ultimately, proprietary software should be replaced
[23:07] <daChaac> marco_g, and there are some rather odd rules in some languages
[23:07] <marco_g> daChaac: Oh, left to right, etc.
[23:07] <zamaliphe> daChaac:  to use arabic in consol and non support soft wear we use fribidi libs do you think it cold be added to grub some how ?
[23:07] <marco_g> okuji: I want free software VHDL tools :-(
[23:08] <daChaac> zamaliphe, fribidi is one solution... one would need to integrate it to grub
[23:08] <Jeroen> marco_g: write them :P
[23:08] <okuji> marco_g: this area is still very hard with free software :(
[23:08] <marco_g> Jeroen: LOL
[23:08] <marco_g> Jeroen: Do you know how hard that is?
[23:09] <marco_g> Jeroen: Will you give me some machine to make ASICs for testing? :-)
[23:09] <marco_g> And a new brain. :)
[23:09] <marco_g> okuji: Yea :-/
[23:09] <marco_g> okuji: It's the only thing I used non-free software for last year :-/
[23:09] <marco_g> It's funny...
[23:09] <okuji> marco_g: ah, really?
[23:09] <zamaliphe> daChaac:  what you think else needed ?
[23:09] <okuji> marco_g: I use proprietary software every day
[23:09] <marco_g> At some new course at the university I need some new software tool...
[23:10] <marco_g> I was depressed because I thought it was windows only... He already said I can not use it at the university and should do it at home.
[23:10] <marco_g> And it turns out to be free software written for UNIX. :-)
[23:10] <marco_g> okuji: Wow :-/
[23:10] <daChaac> zamaliphe, I think it would be good to have truetype (or freetype) support too.. there are libraries for this too...
[23:10] <marco_g> okuji: What do you use?
[23:10] <okuji> marco_g: I can't say it here :D
[23:11] <okuji> marco_g: I am a GNU maintainer
[23:11] <Jeroen> windows?
[23:11] * Jeroen ducks
[23:11] <marco_g> okuji: You can curse about it and make it sounds as bad as it is. ;)
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[23:13] <daChaac> zamaliphe, even if there are libraries for those it would be requirement it be integradable to grub. so I it means that there must be some conversions made so it can be used boot time in grub.
[23:13] <daChaac> zamaliphe, you don't need to master hardware details in that work because we have some level of abstraction in here.
[23:14] <daChaac> zamaliphe, but the problem we have is that we don't know how foreigh languages work so we can't really work on those issues to get them right.
[23:15] <daChaac> zamaliphe, that's way we need people to do that work that has experience on those "special" languages.
[23:16] <zamaliphe> Mnabil:  do you have some thing to say 
[23:17] <zamaliphe> A[D]minS:  do you have some thing to say 
[23:17] <Mnabil> zamaliphe:  any thing i for arabization  ,   i can work on it ?
[23:17] <daChaac> I can give you a picture what is currently supported
[23:18] <A[D]minS> nope
[23:18] <daChaac> http://jumi.lut.fi/~vjaaskel/grub2/grub2-bitmap-test2.png
[23:18] <okuji> whether we use fribidi or not, I'd appreciate help from native speakers
[23:18] <marco_g> fribidi?
[23:18] <okuji> the current developers do not speak arabic or hebrew IIRC
[23:19] <okuji> marco_g: GNU Fribidi
[23:19] <daChaac> from this picture you can see that there are fonts loaded, one render US-ASCII, one render hiragana (japanese), and the one latin-1 character
[23:19] <Mnabil> good work ,  japanese and swedish ?
[23:20] <daChaac> Mnabil, japanese and finnish :)
[23:20] <Mnabil> daChaac:  oh! we can say scandnevian
[23:20] <Mnabil> :)
[23:20] <daChaac> Mnabil, but swedish uses same glyphs :)
[23:20] <marco_g> daChaac: So how's the picture loader doing? :)
[23:20] <daChaac> yes :)
[23:21] <daChaac> marco_g, still need to work more on that... :)
[23:21] <marco_g> Oh :)
[23:21] <okuji> I want png support :p
[23:21] <daChaac> marco_g, I just have to allocate some time for it :)
[23:21] <daChaac> okuji, actually I looked that too :)
[23:21] <daChaac> and jpeg
[23:21] <okuji> daChaac: how hard?
[23:22] <marco_g> daChaac: I know the feeling :-/
[23:22] <marco_g> I had some holidays and planned to hack.
[23:22] <marco_g> But I visited friends for about 6 days and had no time :P
[23:22] <daChaac> okuji, for libpng it is easy to strip writing support, they use setjmp for error handling... but could be day or two to get it integrated
[23:23] <daChaac> okuji, that doesn't follow anyway near the coding convention :)
[23:23] <zamaliphe> daChaac:  what you need from Arabians to do 
[23:24] <daChaac> zamaliphe, if we have one unicode (utf-8) string, there should be some rules how to render it correctly. so this glyph ordering is the hardest part I think.

[23:24] <zamaliphe> they all will be glad to help in Arabic support 
[23:24] <daChaac> zamaliphe, there is currently implemented support to render simple glyphs to screen.
[23:24] <okuji> another thing is the availability of arabic fonts, I guess
[23:25] <daChaac> we don't have an idea what kind of features there should be specified for glyhs
[23:25] <okuji> I don't know if the unicode font includes arabic
[23:25] <daChaac> hmm... I could check that out... but we don't have enough information in font file to at this point I think
[23:26] <daChaac> http://www.unicode.org/charts/
[23:26] <daChaac> here is the unicode chart
[23:26] <daChaac> let's see... 0x0600->
[23:26] <okuji> daChaac: the information should be written in the website of gnu unifont...
[23:27] <daChaac> gnu unifont :) ?
[23:28] <daChaac> I only have cryborra's unifont.hex
[23:28] <okuji> daChaac: it's the gnu unifont
[23:28] <daChaac> ah
[23:28] <daChaac> coverage: 62   U+0600..U+06FF:Arabic
[23:29] <daChaac> 12 U+FB50..U+FDFF:Arabic Presentation Forms-A
[23:29] <daChaac> 140 U+FE70..U+FEFF:Arabic Presentation Forms-B
[23:29] <daChaac> there should be some
[23:29] <okuji> it says: I added the Basic Arabic presentation forms on 1998-10-30.
[23:30] <okuji> I have no idea if it is enough or not
[23:33] <okuji> BTW, about partition numbering, what should I do?
[23:33] <okuji> we can migrate to 1-based, but this would take much time
[23:34] <daChaac> zamaliphe, so basicly we can render left-to-right fonts, but after that we don't have information what to do. This is where we need help.
[23:34] <okuji> we must check a lot of code for this
[23:34] <marco_g> Yeah
[23:34] <zamaliphe> daChaac:  arabic is right to left 
[23:34] <marco_g> And we will need some guideline, I guess.
[23:35] <tschwinge> okuji: People are always confused that GRUB is different in that regard.
[23:35] <hollisb> okuji: there are already some bugs in the Apple partition map code that I need to check (it doesn't list all my partitions)
[23:35] <okuji> tschwinge: I know
[23:35] <zamaliphe> daChaac:  and need Arabic shaping to work correct 
[23:35] <daChaac> okuji, hmm... I was just wondering... is the MBR code one block larger than 512 bytes?... I think it would be possible to add support to define where to load files more precisely... like ata0, atapi0
[23:35] <okuji> hollisb: are you going to fix it?
[23:35] <daChaac> zamaliphe, this is where you help us :)
[23:35] <hollisb> okuji: yes, some day
[23:36] <tschwinge> okuji: Are there reasons to start counting by zero?
[23:36] <tschwinge> I.e. why did you (?) do so at first?
[23:39] *** You are now known as zam.
[23:39] --> You have joined the channel #grub ([email protected]).
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[23:39] <tschwinge> Eww.
[23:39] <tschwinge> :-)
[23:40] <okuji> daChaac: you can't, generally speaking
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[23:40] <okuji> daChaac: the BIOS only loads the first sector, so to load more, GRUB needs to know the drive number
[23:40] <daChaac> okuji, If you known from what device and partition you are booting... you can just load couple of extra sectors, no ?
[23:40] <daChaac> okuji, isn't this passed from BIOS ?
[23:40] <okuji> daChaac: this is possible only when you boot from the same drive
[23:40] <marco_g> tschwinge!!!
[23:40] <okuji> daChaac: this is not always true
[23:41] <marco_g> tschwinge: What's up? :)
[23:41] <tschwinge> marco_g: This and that and everything.
[23:41] <tschwinge> ;-)
[23:41] <tschwinge> marco_g: Today, I have mostly been busy with the SoC.
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[23:41] <marco_g> tschwinge: Oh, nice :-)
[23:42] <-- hollisb has left this server ("leaving").
[23:42] <tschwinge> marco_g: What about that one: I mentor you for the Hurd and you mentor me for GRUB?  ;-P
[23:43] <marco_g> tschwinge: lol
[23:43] <daChaac> zamaliphe, you can get grub2's code from CVS, if you have any questions regarding how other video code or font code works I would be pleased to answer those questions.
[23:43] <marco_g> tschwinge: I doubt that will be allowed. ;-)
[23:43] <marco_g> tschwinge: It would be funny, though. ;-)
[23:43] <daChaac> zamaliphe, I think the grub-devel mailing list would be correct place to place those questions so other devs also know there is ongoing work and can give their views on some issues.
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[23:44] <tschwinge> marco_g: Indeed.  But let's just forget it again.  ;-)
[23:45] <marco_g> tschwinge: :-)
[23:45] <marco_g> tschwinge: I have been thinking a bit about libchannel...
[23:45] <marco_g> hm...
[23:45] <marco_g> tschwinge: I hate you for that. ;-)
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[23:49] <marco_g> Thomas gives sane advice though,.
[23:49] <tschwinge> Yes.
[23:49] <tschwinge> And yes.
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[23:49] <tschwinge> Oh.
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[23:50] <marco_g> Oh?
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[23:50] <tschwinge> okuji: I sent you a mail some months ago or so where I asked you about an email address of a Japanese guy who once worked on GNU Mach...
[23:50] <okuji> tschwinge: did I reply?
[23:50] <tschwinge> No.
[23:50] <okuji> tschwinge: oh
[23:50] <okuji> tschwinge: ask me again now :)
[23:51] <tschwinge> Let me find it...
[23:51] <okuji> tschwinge: I get too many messages every day, so I can't manage to reply to all the messages
[23:51] <tschwinge> Sure.
[23:52] <tschwinge> I'll /query you, ok?
[23:52] <okuji> ah I find the mail
[23:52] <tschwinge> UCHIYAMA Yasushi
[23:52] <okuji> If the address is still effective, it should be [email protected]
[23:53] <okuji> but maybe not effective any longer...
[23:53] <tschwinge> I found [email protected], but that one didn't work.
[23:53] <okuji> tschwinge: then I don't know
[23:53] <okuji> I haven't contacted him for some years
[23:54] <tschwinge> Ok.  Thanks nevertheless.  :-)
[23:54] <okuji> I can ask somebody if necessary
[23:54] <daChaac> okuji, oh... btw. which one is your first name ? Okuji ?... I ask this because you have them backward in wiki :) ?... at least instructions showed that FirstLast should be used.
[23:55] <okuji> tschwinge: one possiblity is [email protected]
[23:55] <okuji> tschwinge: he has a mail address in netbsd.org
[23:55] <tschwinge> Ah, ok.
[23:55] <tschwinge> I'll give that one a try as well.
[23:55] <marco_g> tschwinge: What is it about?
[23:55] <okuji> daChaac: define it as you wish ;)
[23:55] <marco_g> lol
[23:56] <daChaac> okuji, I still have a some memory that family name is written with capitals in where you come... so my best guess is that is backwards in wiki :)
[23:57] <okuji> daChaac: the same question was asked too many times in hurd, so I even wrote a FAQ on my web site
[23:57] <daChaac> okuji, oh
[23:57] <okuji> daChaac: I don't have the page any longer though
[23:58] <okuji> daChaac: ask jeff bailey. he asked the same question to me. ;)
[00:01] <daChaac> hmm.. I might have mixed it myself then :|... I found some entries from edict
[00:02] <jrydberg> evening
[00:02] <daChaac> actually it were jedict
[00:02] <jrydberg> anyone experimented with intel macs and grub2?
[00:02] <marco_g> heya Johan!
[00:02] <marco_g> jrydberg: Okuji is working on it \o/
[00:03] * marco_g is playing: Passenger - Circles
[00:03] <marco_g> jrydberg: You might like this too :)
[00:03] <jrydberg> my gutfeeling tells me that EFI and GPT will lead the way for grub2
[00:03] <marco_g> jrydberg: ACK
[00:04] <jrydberg> at least GPT, now when here is bootcamp
[00:04] <okuji> jrydberg: wait for two more weeks
[00:04] <marco_g> jrydberg: We have a GPT implementation for a very long time already. :-)
[00:05] * marco_g heard a lot about bootcamp but doesn't really know it.
[00:05] <daChaac> okuji, have you won on free time slots lottery ;)
[00:05] <jrydberg> okuji: you hacking it as a stand-alone EFI binary?
[00:05] <okuji> jrydberg: sure
[00:06] <jrydberg> okuji: how well will it integrate with the MacOSX boot selector?
[00:06] <jrydberg> okuji: will rEFI be required?
[00:06] <okuji> daChaac: well, it's hard to find free time for me, but I can manage it
[00:06] <okuji> jrydberg: you mean refit?
[00:07] <jrydberg> okuji: ah, yes. sorry.
[00:07] <okuji> jrydberg: of course, no. grub is a full-featured boot loader ;)
[00:08] <jrydberg> okuji: so how will the final result look?
[00:08] <marco_g> refit?
[00:08] <jrydberg> marco_g: refit.sf.net
[00:08] <okuji> jrydberg: it will be similar to grub on pc in a sense
[00:08] <okuji> jrydberg: but I can do much better, since EFI supports more than BIOS
[00:08] <jrydberg> okuji: except you can already in EFI-images, such as the OS X bootloader?
[00:09] <jrydberg> err
[00:09] <jrydberg> can run
[00:09] <jrydberg> man, i'm tired
[00:09] <jrydberg> let me rephrase my self
[00:09] <okuji> jrydberg: :)
[00:09] <jrydberg> okuji: How will you boot OS X?  By running the OS X bootloader EFI image?
[00:10] <jrydberg> marco_g: How is HFS+ support comming along?
[00:10] <marco_g> jrydberg: It's there.
[00:10] <jrydberg> wonderful.
[00:10] <marco_g> :)
[00:10] <jrydberg> I got a ugly little Mac Mini at work today
[00:10] <marco_g> Cool :-)
[00:10] <jrydberg> and I want to wipe OS X and run Linux instead.  or possible dual boot it
[00:10] <okuji> jrydberg: I guess all I have to do is to chainload the MacOSX loader, which is also an EFI application
[00:11] <okuji> jrydberg: this is exactly how refit works, IIRC
[00:12] <jrydberg> okuji: OK. Great.
[00:12] <jrydberg> okuji: Do you have a wiki-page with your notes and progress or something like that?
[00:12] <marco_g> okuji: And a Linux loader will be easy or the same?
[00:12] <okuji> jrydberg: sure
[00:12] <okuji> jrydberg: http://grub.enbug.org/YoshinoriOkuji
[00:12] <okuji> marco_g: good question :)
[00:12] <jrydberg> marco_g: There is the issue with legacy bios, but newer Linux versions has experimental EFI support, IIRC.
[00:12] <okuji> marco_g: I have looked at the code of elilo
[00:12] <okuji> marco_g: it looked very ugly
[00:13] <okuji> marco_g: do you know how linux boots on pc?
[00:15] <marco_g> hm
[00:15] <marco_g> okuji: I only have heard it is ugly and scary, etc. ;)
[00:15] <okuji> marco_g: with PC/BIOS, linux starts from real mode
[00:15] <okuji> marco_g: then, the real mode code initializes the system briefly, and jump to protected mode
[00:16] <marco_g> :-/
[00:16] <okuji> marco_g: with EFI, the boot loader must do the same initialization
[00:16] <marco_g> So switch back to real mode?
[00:16] <okuji> marco_g: and jump to the protected mode code directly
[00:16] <marco_g> oh
[00:16] <okuji> marco_g: no need to use real mode
[00:16] <marco_g> pfew
[00:17] <marco_g> Damn, it is late already.
[00:17] <marco_g> I should get out of bed really early tomorrow...
[00:17] <okuji> marco_g: time to sleep for good children :D
[00:17] <marco_g> Bye!
[00:17] <jrydberg> okuji: If you ask me, that is Linux's fault.  There is no need to have real-mode code in the kernel these days
[00:17] <okuji> marco_g: good night!
[00:17] <marco_g> okuji: And for hard working students. ;-)
[00:17] <marco_g> Bye!
[00:17] * Mnabil is away: raye7 al3ab fe Cvirus
[00:17] <jrydberg> bye Marco
[00:18] <okuji> jrydberg: I agree
[00:18] <jrydberg> okuji: I wonder why they never adopted the multiboot standard
[00:18] <okuji> jrydberg: can you convince hpa?
[00:18] <jrydberg> i remember there were some in-official patches for a while
[00:18] <daChaac> I think think there is some video bios emulation support either in linux kernel or in x11
[00:19] <jrydberg> but that must have been like 6-7 years ago
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[00:19] <jrydberg> daChaac: Yes?  That doesn't mean the bootstrap of the kernel must be in real-mode
[00:19] <jrydberg> okuji: hpa? is that some linux-kernel guru?
[00:20] <okuji> jrydberg: H. Peter Anvin
[00:20] <jrydberg> i really don't follow the kernel development these days
[00:20] <okuji> jrydberg: he is responsibly for the bootstrap mainly
[00:20] <jrydberg> okuji: ah
[00:20] <okuji> jrydberg: he is also the author of syslinux
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[00:20] <okuji> jrydberg: and he hates grub :p
[00:20] <daChaac> I wonder why ;)
[00:20] <jrydberg> hehe
[00:21] <jrydberg> okuji: maybe it could be done in a separate step?  with an intermediate kernel that (1) switches from protected-mode to real-mode, setups the ugly stuff and jumps to the linux kernel :)
[00:21] <zamaliphe> okuji: if you need arabic font her is some
[00:21] <zamaliphe> http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=34866&package_id=75554
[00:22] <okuji> jrydberg: terrible
[00:22] <jrydberg> okuji: yes
[00:22] <jrydberg> but it almost feel worse to have it in GRUB2
[00:22] <jrydberg> this way you could blame it on linux
[00:23] <okuji> zamaliphe: what is the format of these fonts? bitmaps?
[00:24] <zamaliphe> this is sorce cod fonts i dont know let me see
[00:25] <okuji> jrydberg: in grub2, we use dynamic modules, so we don't have to put the code in the core of grub
[00:25] <daChaac> truetype it seems
[00:25] <okuji> daChaac: time to support TTF? ;)
[00:25] <daChaac> so freetype is perhaps best canditate
[00:26] <A[D]minS> Nighty all
[00:26] <daChaac> okuji, do you want to support Jam in building projects :) :)
[00:26] <daChaac> okuji, freetype is full of it.
[00:26] <daChaac> :)
[00:27] <daChaac> okuji, there are some depencies.. gzip (If I remmeber correctly there is support for this already in grub), lzw...
[00:28] <okuji> daChaac: I have considered jam before writing my own
[00:29] <daChaac> but yes... it is doable... just needs looooots of work :)
[00:29] <okuji> daChaac: I don't remember well, but I didn't think it was suitable for grub
[00:29] <okuji> daChaac: since freetype is more or less stable, we can copy the code of freetype to grub, and modify it locally
[00:30] <daChaac> okuji, yes... but I will finish this TGA support and the make a patch about bitmap support first
[00:30] <daChaac> after that I will think what to do :)
[00:31] <jrydberg> okuji: so what do you think about EFI?
[00:31] <okuji> jrydberg: as I noted in the wiki, EFI is mostly good, but sucks at some aspect
[00:32] <okuji> Erich also told me that EFI became a monster after all...
[00:32] <okuji> note that he worked in intel when EFI was developed
[00:33] <jrydberg> ah
[00:33] <jrydberg> i still have an old "erich-grub" version running on one of my machines
[00:33] <jrydberg> version 0.4 I think
[00:33] <okuji> jrydberg: !
[00:33] <zamaliphe> okuji: the fonts is .ttf
[00:33] <okuji> zamaliphe: thanks
[00:34] <okuji> jrydberg: 0.4 was excellent, as it supported enough at that time, and quite compact
[00:34] <jrydberg> okuji: that was why I never switched to a newer version
[00:34] <daChaac> zamaliphe, so basicly truetype support and then correct order for rendering text is the features missing currently
[00:36] <zamaliphe> okuji:  its me who should thank you alot for caring in Arabic support and if you need any thing gust ask 
[00:36] <jrydberg> okuji: How similar is EFI to OF?
[00:36] <jrydberg> Is it just "OF for C" ?
[00:38] <okuji> jrydberg: I can say that they are similar
[00:38] <okuji> jrydberg: in comparison with BIOS, they are more similar
[00:38] <zamaliphe> daChaac:  what you mean pleas explean my first language is Arabic I'm not that perfect in English
[00:38] <okuji> jrydberg: but the details are sometimes very different
[00:39] <jrydberg> okuji: But the overall concept is more or less the same?  With device trees and with the possibility for byte-code drivers?
[00:39] <okuji> jrydberg: in an abstract level, yes
[00:40] <jrydberg> okuji: OK.  Thanks.
[00:40] <jrydberg> Anyhow, time to sleep I think.
[00:40] <jrydberg> okuji: Nice chattin' with you.
[00:40] <okuji> yes, I must be a good child as well marco ;)
[00:40] <jrydberg> hehe
[00:41] <okuji> good night
[00:41] <jrydberg> gn!
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[00:43] <daChaac> zamaliphe, truetype support is needed to render those fonts you showed to us.
[00:44] <zamaliphe> daChaac:  so is it support or not ?
[00:45] <daChaac> zamaliphe, then correct text order support means that we need to support right-to-left... and I heard that there is some odd things when mixing english and in example hebrew... something like english is "OK" and then hebwrew in "backwards"
[00:45] <daChaac> zamaliphe, it is not currently supported
[00:45] <daChaac> zamaliphe, it would require that someone writes .ttf loader
[00:45] <daChaac> zamaliphe, there is library called freetype that could be used on this
[00:46] <daChaac> zamaliphe, and for correct text order... fribidi could be used... but that is not implemented now.
[00:46] <zamaliphe> daChaac:  what is the supported fonts ?
[00:47] <daChaac> zamaliphe, what we have now is support for unicode (eg. have unicode value as a character)... and then we have bitmap fonts eg 16x16 32x16
[00:47] <daChaac> (or was sit 8x16 and 16x16
[00:47] <daChaac> but anyway
[00:47] <daChaac> then we can render these bitmap fonts to screen
[00:48] <daChaac> like you show on that picture I previously give url for
[00:48] <daChaac> so basicly support for right-to-left (and what ever too is needed) needs to be done.
[00:48] <daChaac> I think we can use current fonts to do some work at this point
[00:49] <daChaac> but right-to-left must be implemented first I think.
[00:49] <daChaac> there are some arabic fonts in this unifont.hex file where I have taken those fonts
[00:49] <daChaac> zamaliphe, http://grub.enbug.org/gfxterm
[00:50] <daChaac> zamaliphe, here is initial page about graphical terminal
[00:50] <daChaac> zamaliphe, it is still work in progress but shows how we get fonts
[00:50] <zamaliphe> hmm OK even if i have to create them for you make shor that you will have this font for Arabic support
[00:51] <daChaac> hmm.. now I didn't get what you meant :)
[00:51] <daChaac> we are going to support other language too (like Arabic), but we need support for native speakers of those languages. otherwise we cannot support them.
[00:52] <daChaac> zamaliphe, so you (or someone else speaking arabic) have to give us a hand so we can support it :)
[00:52] <zamaliphe> what can i do for you
[00:53] <zamaliphe> i wish to help also
[00:53] <daChaac> zamaliphe, you know how right-to-left works?... that would need to be implemented first
[00:54] <daChaac> zamaliphe, if you don't know how this could be done in code, you could help to make contact to some people willing to help us on that part
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[00:54] <doktoreas> hi guys
[00:55] <doktoreas> i have set up the initrd in /boot/ but grub still say that file is missing
[00:55] <zamaliphe> ok i will send it to evry one i know
[00:56] <daChaac> zamaliphe, unfortunely it is 2am now... and I need to go sleep now. tell them to write mail to grub-devel mailing list
[00:56] <daChaac> zamaliphe, http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
[00:56] <zamaliphe> ok 
[00:57] <daChaac> good night.
[00:58] <doktoreas> i don't understand why
[00:59] <doktoreas> in /boot/ I've got the initramfs-genkernel-x86-2.6.12-gentoo-r10
[00:59] <doktoreas> and this is grub.conf
[00:59] <doktoreas> initrd /boot/initramfs-genkernel-x86-2.6.12-gentoo-r10
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khaledhosny's picture

يا ابنى بدل مش

يا ابنى بدل ال 500 سطر دول مش كنت تلخص الكلام عشان نفهم ايه ده -:)

اللى أنا أعرفه أن grub2 فى خطط انه يدعم l18n وال i10n وممكن كمان يدعم يمين-شمال

اللى فهمته من الكلام الكتير ده انهم عايزين حد يساعدهم فى الكود بتاع اليمين-شمال ولو ممكن يستعملو fribidi , وكمان grub2 بقى modular يعنى ممكن ينكتب موديول منفصل للكلام ده

وكمان فى تفكير يستخدمو خطوط TTF بس لسه محدش كتب كود

ياترى فى حد عنده حماس يساعد فى ده ؟


رساله شكر

احب اشكر الى قام بتنظيم المحادثه وأسأله كيف قمت بذالك صراحه مجهود رائع وأحب اتعلم كيف بمكن عمل ذالك

Conceptor's picture

Diaa Radwan

انا معملتش حاجه غير قبل المحادثه حطيت }}} وبعد المحادثة{{{ بس و لا شكر على واجب :)
Diaa Radwan
MSameer's picture

No way, I'm not reading

No way, I'm not reading all this. Why don't you state what's really needed ?

Beside, Who needs Arabic in the bootloader anyway!!!

ShErbO's picture

Seconded

Don´t get me wrong guys, everyone´s free to do what he wants but I think that´s not what the arab community needs at all.

Mohammed Ahmed's picture

Thirded

Same.

i think it just the arabs soul,

I don`t think they will ask for arabic binary, 0 1 2 are the arabic numbers

the numbers we use are the indian one ...

May be they will ask for arabic hexa..


I Was Known as POSIX

khaledhosny's picture

No way, I'm not reading all

simply, for Arabic support we need a grub2 module (as grub2 has a modular design) to do Arabic related issues, this module may be based on fribidi, also we need a font with Arabic support to be used with grub2

this may be true for a simple boot loader like lilo, grub is a full featured boot manager with command line, ability to list and read files on the file system with may contain Arabic text or have Arabic names, also help files may be translated to Arabic.

NLS support is one of the new ideas for grub2, not an Arabic only issue


any way thanks

any way thanks to you all

but special thanks to all #morphix guys specially "paul_c"

for supporting me in grub-gfx

and Meany Meany thanks to okuji and daChaac for adding the Arabic support to grub 2

i can see that their is not Meany users use grub 2 right now

but soon will be and i think if grub 2 can show Japan's then it will be

a shin if it cant show arabic while we all here

to get what i get so far now i take Meany dyes

with alot of help from all the names i have but here

by the way non of them tel me that grub with arabic is not important

or they have another work to do than help me

or "STFW" or "RTFM" so thanks to them all and thanks to all of you

for taking that time for reading it

i will continue Alon but who ever want to help

i will be thank full for hem alot .

after all that's all

now see the pics

MSameer's picture

Do something then...

>> a shin if it cant show arabic while we all here

If you think it's a sin, Then do something.

I personally don't think it's a sin or that it's really important ATM, We have really more problems to take care of, I've been working on a small article about the state of Arabic under the FLOSS desktop "I have an old one but I wanted to check the current status" and hell, We do have problems!

Good luck anyway,

khaledhosny's picture

he is doing

I don't know if he can program or not, but i can see that he is doing "some thing" at least we can see Arabic fonts.

This isn't not an urgent issue but some one can do it, having too many more urgent problems doesn't mean we shouldn't do this until we solve the others or we won't do any thing at all


MSameer's picture

I was talking about

I was talking about myself, I told no one not to do something here.

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